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 [GUIDE] Subtlety Rogue (PVP)

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PostSubject: [GUIDE] Subtlety Rogue (PVP)   Tue May 03, 2011 9:26 pm


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-Stat and Reforging Priorities
-Finisher Priorities
-Diminishing Returns
-Shiv Dispels
-Main Poisons
-General "Rotation"
-Other Tips



Damage 2:



Both "Damage" specs are very similar, the key difference being one gives more speed and +20% healing and the other one gives -6% damage reduction (the +1% to Recuperate healing is good but not amazing).

The "Damage" specs are generally advised for those that do Bg's and rarely get focused in arena.


Prime Glyphs:
Glyph of Shadow Dance, Glyph of Backstab, Glyph of Hemorrhage

Major Glyphs:
Glyph of Garrote, Glyph of Preparation, Glyph of Blind

Minor Glyphs:
Glyph of Poisons, Glyph of Distract, Glyph of Safe Fall, Glyph of Blurred Speed

I would personally recommend Glyph of Poisons for the ability to swap poisons depending on the opponent (Mind Numbing for caster, Wound for other) and Glyph of Distract for Stealth->Distract->Sap

Stat and Reforging Priorities :

5% Hit > Agility > Crit > Haste > Mastery > Expertise

Crit is only greater than Haste because you cannot get it in a large enough amount for it to be better than Crit, in seasons to come this will change.

Finisher Priorities :

Do I have Recuperate up? if no, put it up, if yes then ...

Do I need sustained damage? Slice and Dice
Do I need burst? Eviscerate
Do I need control? Kidney Shot

Diminishing returns :

- Diminishing returns is when your Crowd Controls are reduced because of previously used Crowd Control on the target. E.g. If your target is Feared and then you immediately Blind the same target, your Blind will be reduced to 4 seconds down from 8 seconds.

-Sap/Gouge: Freezing Trap (Hunter), Hex (Shaman), Polymorph (Mage), Ring of Frost(Mage), Hibernate (Druid)

-Cheap Shot/Kidney Shot: with every Stun but Impact Stun (Mage) and Brutal Earthstorm Diamond's RNG stun.

-Blind: with Fear effects like Fear (Warlock), Psychic Scream (Priest), Intimidating Shout (Warrior)

Shiv Dispels :

- Shiv gives you the ability to remove Enrage effects, below are all of the effects that can be dispelled by shiv:

Enrage - (Warrior) Generates rage.

Wrecking Crew - (Warrior) Damage increase.

Savage Roar - (Feral Druid) Increases speed of auto-attacks

Unholy Frenzy - (Death Knight) Similar to Bloodlust but to friendly target.

Berserker Rage - (Warrior) Immunity to -MOST- Rogue Crowd Controls.

Death Wish - (Warrior) +20% damage increase.

Owlkin Frenzy - (Boomkin) +10% damage and mana restore (10%)

Gemming :

Meta : Agile Shadowspirit Diamond

Red : Delicate Inferno Ruby OR if you are a JC'er - Delicate Chimera's Eye

Orange (Red or Yellow) : Deadly Ember TopazLucent Ember Topaz

Purple : Glinting Demonseye

Blue : Glinting Demonseye

Enchanting :

- Left to right in order of best. Most expensive also starts from left to right, multiple options given for those with lower budgets.

Head : Arcanum of Vicious Agility

Shoulder : Greater Inscription of Vicious Agility

Cloak : Enchant Cloak - Greater Critical Strike Enchant Cloak - Critical Strike Scroll of Enchant Cloak - Major Agility

Chest : Enchant Chest - Mighty Resilience

Wrist : Enchant Bracer - Agility Enchant Bracer - Greater Critical StrikeEnchant Bracer - Greater SpeedEnchant Bracer - Speed

Hands : Scroll of Enchant Gloves - Major Agility Enchant Gloves - Haste

Legs : Dragonscale Leg Armor

Feet : With Quickening Enchant Boots - Major Agility
W/O Quickening Enchant Boots - Assassin's Step

Main Hand Enchant Weapon - LandslideEnchant Weapon - Hurricane

Off Hand Pyrium Weapon Chain

Professions :

Anything will do, but generally JC and LW are considered the best.

Main Poisons :

Wound Poison/Crippling Poison/Crippling Poison
Mind-Numbing Poison/Crippling Poison/Crippling Poison
Wound Poison/Crippling Poison/Mind-Numbing Poison

Or any combination of the three, keeping Crippling Poison as Off-Hand. I would recommend Wound Poison/Crippling Poison/Mind-Numbing Poison while using Glyph of Poisons to swap between Wound/Mind Numbing depending on opponent.

Macro :

Spammable Stealth:

/cast !Stealth

If you have your mouse over a target it blinds them, if not it blinds the target currently targeted.

/cast [target=mouseover, exists] Blind; blind

Focus arena target (Make macros 1-5, f1-f5 are good choices for these.)

/focus arena1

Use ability on target, or when holding shift on focus target

/cast [nomodifier] "NAME";[modifier,target=focus] "NAME"

Redirect Kidney Shot

/castsequence [@focus] reset=20 Redirect, Kidney Shot

Preparation macro (It uses all the CD abilities that you did not use before it refreshes them with Preparation)

/cast [nostealth] evasion
/cast sprint
/cast preparation

Spammable Sap macro for Stealth fights

/cast Sap

Use your on-use trinket with Shadow Dance (Make sure you have the on-use trinket in the 1st slot, above the other trinket).

/use 13
/cast shadow dance

Probably the most important for saving lots of room on your keyboard.

Alternative abilities on a single key

/cast [stance] Kidney shot
/startattack [nostealth]
/cast [stance] Ambush
/cast [stance/2/3] Premeditation
/cast [stance/2] Ambush

Stance:0 = Outside of stealth.
Stance:1 = The few seconds inside the vanish
Stance:2 = Shadow Dance
Stance:3 = Stealth

For me I have 4 different ones.

/cast [stance] Kidney shot
/startattack [nostealth]
/cast [stance] Ambush
/cast [stance/2/3] Premeditation
/cast [stance/2] Ambush

/cast [stance] Slice and dice
/startattack [nostealth]
/cast [stance] Kidney Shot
/cast [stance/2/3] Premeditation
/cast [stance/2] Garrote

/cast [stance] Eviscerate
/startattack [nostealth]
/cast [stance] Garrote
/cast [stance] Premeditation
/cast [stance/2] Sap

/cast [stance] Backstab
/startattack [nostealth]
/cast [stance] Cheap shot
/cast [stance/2/3] Premeditation
/cast [stance/2] Cheap shot

Opening :

It's hard to directly say an opening strategy, If you look below there are key moments and choices as to what you should open with (Garrote/Ambush/Cheap shot). If you choose to open with Ambush, apply Hemo quickly. If Cheap shot use Gouge to at least help with the DR reset. Against most casters Garrote is the recommended opener.

Trying to get Recup up as soon as possible is important for both survivability and energy regain. Try maximizing damage during FW (FW reduces opponents armor by 70%).

Garrote is the preferred opener against any caster and most melee, you may chose to use cheap shot against some healers and use Vanish->Garrote when it is more ideal, using gouge if you choose to use cheap shot is definitely recommended to start bringing the DR back to full. Staying on the topic of Cheap Shot outside of that scenario the only other time it would be recommended is to peel off from a flag carrier/important target and chain into a gouge for 8 seconds of control. I have more information on peeling under "Other Tips"

Ambush is not really a good opener since there is no FW up and unless your target has no Res you're not really going to do enough damage for it to be worthwhile, also no bleed up at this time for more damage.

General "Rotation" :

Hemo has priority if no bleed is up, then BS, if the target is being a pain to get a BS in you can Hemo instead, try to go for the BS and only Hemo to keep your self from energy capping.

Gouge should be used frequently in both 1v1 encounters and multiple encounters on nearby enemies, now that Sanguinary Veins works on bleeds its a terrific addition to Sub control.

For things like Mages, Hunters, Warlocks and Warriors don't use Shadow step until they blink/disengage/teleport/Make distance or Heroic Leap.

Opening with Shadow step against anyone is almost always a bad idea however, in certain situations it would be smart for example: Sapping one target and Shadow stepping to the second target (If there is an acceptable distance, not like 5 yards or something dismal). This is a wise move to maximize the amount of damage you can get off during the Sap (Which maybe be used on a healer while you burn the dps). Of course Shadow stepping to a Mage, Hunter, Warlock would be a bad idea since you will just get kited and be put in a worse case than before.

Other Tips:

- This section will be constantly updated and any other tips would be greatly appreciated.


Useful for helping team mates out, as well as flag carriers or healers in Bg/Rbg
You can Prem+cheap shot one target, redirect kidney shot to another and blind a third target,then go back and gouge the cheap shot target. Doing this for a flag carrier in a bg/rbg will give them more than enough to time receive heals. You may also be willing/able to use Dismantle on a nearby melee, using all of these tactics at once in most circumstances will be overkill and you may only need to use 2-3.

Mounted players:

Learn to use Distract, it's one of the most common tools that Rogues do not use. If you have a target mounted and running away from you active Sprint, throw the Distract behind them and into a Sap.

Being focused, whether you are a flag carrier or team mate:

If you are taking on too many people and are in danger of dying look around the field for the person furthest away from everyone this will more times than not be a caster/healer. Active Cloak of Shadows and Shadowstep over to that target, depending on the intelligence/reaction time of your opponents you can buy yourself lots of time to receive heals. On top of this after using Shadowstep active Smoke Bomb, this will effectively give you even more time without being Charged/Death Gripped etc.

Prem trick:

This is an oldy and may only be used in some scenarios where you have lots of time to prepare your opening. Use Prem and wait until there are 1-3 seconds left before Prems cooldown resets, active Recuperate. Now not only is Prem refreshed but you also start the fight with Recuperate rolling which will help your opening damage.

Smoke Bomb:

Like on Reckful's video and only recently discovered by myself you can actually use Smoke Bomb to break the Stealth of nearby players.

How to effectively flip a Rogue opening:

Presuming they open with Cheap Shot (If they don't just Gouge and start controlling like usual) trinket the Cheap Shot and Blind them, it's very important to trinket very quickly, if they get a bleed up you will be putting yourself at a disadvantage. From there wait the Blind out, if they trinket that then Vanish and open with Cheap Shot, if they don't trinket the Blind then continue with your normal control methods.

Against Warriors:

Feint is an effect move that people overlook if you don't regularly PvE, feint reduces AoE damage by 50%.
If you find yourself up against an Arms Warrior with Dismantle down do not worry. When the Warrior starts to use Whirlwind active Feint and Evasion. Be prepared to cancel Evasion if they cancel their Whirlwind as they will Overpower while they have the opportunity up.

Getting a clean Kidney Shot:

Using Kidney Shot from face on can sometimes be Blocked, Parried or Dodged, however if you Gouge first then get behind your opponent and Kidney Shot there is a 100% chance it will not be Blocked, Parried or Dodged. Moves from behind cannot be be Blocked, Parried or Dodged in PvP.

Felguard Stun:

Regularily when a Rogue opens on a Demo Warlock he will get hit by the Felguards stun, however if you Dismantle the Felguard after opening on the Warlock he will not be able to stun you for 10 seconds

Flag Carrying:

This is a pretty risky move but it may pay off if you are low on health and have no help around, only use this if there is a single opponent with no one else around. Stealth around a corner (Yes this will drop the flag) Sap them and Sprint back to the flag, picking it up. If they trinket Blind them. If all goes well this is an effective move that will buy you some time.


Rogues have the ability to be used as creatively as you can, mix and match moves. If you didn't want to fight someone while you are running down the field; Gouge, Sprint and spin around and do a deadly throw. Doing things like this is the reason Rogues are one of the funnest classes to play for those who are creative and have a quick reaction time for setting up new and interesting fight strategies on the spot.
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[GUIDE] Subtlety Rogue (PVP)
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